Comments on: My new (green?) car http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/ This blog is about the impact of business on society. Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:27:13 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: jblog http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-60974 jblog Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:02:39 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-60974 If only everyone approached such decisions in such a multidimensional way, what a better place the world would be. You looked at the issue from all sides, considered all the factors (mileage, comfort, utility, features, etc.), and then made the best OVERALL decision for you. In fact, considering how easy it is to get virtually all the information you need to make an informed, balanced decision like the one you made here, it's pretty much just lazy not to. So the obvious question, if it's so easy to do, why don't more people do it? If only everyone approached such decisions in such a multidimensional way, what a better place the world would be. You looked at the issue from all sides, considered all the factors (mileage, comfort, utility, features, etc.), and then made the best OVERALL decision for you.

In fact, considering how easy it is to get virtually all the information you need to make an informed, balanced decision like the one you made here, it’s pretty much just lazy not to.

So the obvious question, if it’s so easy to do, why don’t more people do it?

]]> By: Arc Institute’s Blog » Blog Archive » Responsibility vs. Complacency http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-60786 Arc Institute’s Blog » Blog Archive » Responsibility vs. Complacency Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:41:26 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-60786 [...] post was in response to and inspired by Marc Gunther’s post: http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comments and Jeff Weintraub’s [...] [...] post was in response to and inspired by Marc Gunther’s post: http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comments and Jeff Weintraub’s [...]

]]> By: Billie Mintz http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-60770 Billie Mintz Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:29:46 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-60770 Marc, we can't rely on government or corporations to make it "easier" for us to make the change. unfortunately like you, I am the carbon manager of my family and office. to most people it is "inconvenient" to reduce their carbon footprint. we have to demand that these larger entities follow our choices. i know spending 5K more is a lot but it is necessary to send that message out there that we as the largest entity (consumers) want a more sustainable product. I found your post from reading "So It Goes" A Blog by Jeff Weintraub http://soitgoes.typepad.com/ where Jerry comments on your post about the need for more "convenient" choices. My response: there is nothing convenient about the choices we have to make. The Corporations are doing something about it but we need to get organized and advocate to eachother of the necessity of our conscious consumerism, convenient, affordable, or not. Billie Mintz Artists Raising Consciousness www.arcinstitute.net Marc,
we can’t rely on government or corporations to make it “easier” for us to make the change. unfortunately like you, I am the carbon manager of my family and office. to most people it is “inconvenient” to reduce their carbon footprint. we have to demand that these larger entities follow our choices. i know spending 5K more is a lot but it is necessary to send that message out there that we as the largest entity (consumers) want a more sustainable product. I found your post from reading “So It Goes” A Blog by Jeff Weintraub http://soitgoes.typepad.com/ where Jerry comments on your post about the need for more “convenient” choices. My response: there is nothing convenient about the choices we have to make. The Corporations are doing something about it but we need to get organized and advocate to eachother of the necessity of our conscious consumerism, convenient, affordable, or not.

Billie Mintz
Artists Raising Consciousness
http://www.arcinstitute.net

]]> By: Mark W. McElroy http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-60292 Mark W. McElroy Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:54:31 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-60292 Marc: Your account provides a good example of what we all go through when trying to manage and balance our financial and non-financial impacts in the world. What it does less well, I think, is differentiate your own impacts from the impacts of the companies you discuss. In other words, there is a difference between your own sustainability and the sustainability of the companies whose products you purchase. Your story, I think, invites confusion between the two. Indeed, what may be best (or worst) for you may be worst (or best) for us all, in terms of the sustainability performance of the companies involved. For all we know, Honda's manufacturing of the Fit may be the most unsustainable operation on the planet. Your focus on only your own use of it, however, would have us ignore the very question of that. Think of it this way: to say that a product is best for you, is not to say that the impacts of its production is best for us all. There is a difference between the sustainability of your own use of a product, and the sustainability effects of the company that produces it. Your account, however, fails to make this distinction, so we will never know if you made the best decision or the worst one - nor will you. Alas, since you and much of the rest of the press seem content to commit this mistake, the world as we know it is more likely to press on to hell in a handbasket, not less. How about you take a stand against this and stop inviting confusion between consumer behaviors and producer behaviors? There is a difference, you know. Just a thought. Mark Marc:

Your account provides a good example of what we all go through when trying to manage and balance our financial and non-financial impacts in the world. What it does less well, I think, is differentiate your own impacts from the impacts of the companies you discuss. In other words, there is a difference between your own sustainability and the sustainability of the companies whose products you purchase. Your story, I think, invites confusion between the two.

Indeed, what may be best (or worst) for you may be worst (or best) for us all, in terms of the sustainability performance of the companies involved. For all we know, Honda’s manufacturing of the Fit may be the most unsustainable operation on the planet. Your focus on only your own use of it, however, would have us ignore the very question of that.

Think of it this way: to say that a product is best for you, is not to say that the impacts of its production is best for us all. There is a difference between the sustainability of your own use of a product, and the sustainability effects of the company that produces it. Your account, however, fails to make this distinction, so we will never know if you made the best decision or the worst one – nor will you.

Alas, since you and much of the rest of the press seem content to commit this mistake, the world as we know it is more likely to press on to hell in a handbasket, not less. How about you take a stand against this and stop inviting confusion between consumer behaviors and producer behaviors? There is a difference, you know. Just a thought.

Mark

]]> By: Irene http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-60090 Irene Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:47:55 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-60090 "incent" as a verb? What could you be thinking, Marc? “incent” as a verb? What could you be thinking, Marc?

]]> By: Marc http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-60048 Marc Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:44:56 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-60048 Its's red. The Fit doesn't come in green. My wife also reminds me that the new car we bought in the 1980s was a Honda Accord. (The Camry was bought used from a neighbor). And...to slightly correct my self-portrait as a cheapskate. I'm willing to spend money on experiences--travel, vacations (we go to Alaska in a few days) and restaurant meals, for example. But I'm more reluctant than ever to buy "stuff" and trying generally to declutter my life and think about the environmental impact of what I buy. Its’s red. The Fit doesn’t come in green. My wife also reminds me that the new car we bought in the 1980s was a Honda Accord. (The Camry was bought used from a neighbor).
And…to slightly correct my self-portrait as a cheapskate. I’m willing to spend money on experiences–travel, vacations (we go to Alaska in a few days) and restaurant meals, for example. But I’m more reluctant than ever to buy “stuff” and trying generally to declutter my life and think about the environmental impact of what I buy.

]]> By: Lee http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-59926 Lee Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:38:58 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-59926 So, what color is the car? Red, as the one in the photo? Or green? :) So, what color is the car? Red, as the one in the photo? Or green? :)

]]> By: BPT - MoneyChangesThings http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-59906 BPT - MoneyChangesThings Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:14:57 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-59906 Marc, I have come to the identical conclusion as you. I also work at home and have localized my life. So instead of a hybrid, I still drive my old Forester. It's way too big for what I need, except schlepping my daughter to and from college, but when I do that I drive it at 60 MPH and get pretty decent mileage. I decided instead of springing for a hybrid, I would simply drive as little as possible, take mass transit whenever possible, and wait it out for an electric car in a few years. Drive safely!! Driving less advantages the collective - not just fewer emissions, but one less car clogging up the road, slowing others down, taking up parking spaces etc. Marc, I have come to the identical conclusion as you. I also work at home and have localized my life. So instead of a hybrid, I still drive my old Forester. It’s way too big for what I need, except schlepping my daughter to and from college, but when I do that I drive it at 60 MPH and get pretty decent mileage. I decided instead of springing for a hybrid, I would simply drive as little as possible, take mass transit whenever possible, and wait it out for an electric car in a few years.
Drive safely!! Driving less advantages the collective – not just fewer emissions, but one less car clogging up the road, slowing others down, taking up parking spaces etc.

]]> By: Larry Kaplan http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-59880 Larry Kaplan Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:22:42 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-59880 I completely understand your dilemna, and the underlying policy challenge for government and the private sector---how to make the "green" choice the best deal, too. I had a similar experience a year ago when I needed a new hot water heater for my house: the environmentally-correct tankless heater was three times as expensive as the conventional type. Without some kind of subsidy or rebate, there was no way I could afford to pay for the tankless one, so I went with the conventional, and less green, variety. I completely understand your dilemna, and the underlying policy challenge for government and the private sector—how to make the “green” choice the best deal, too. I had a similar experience a year ago when I needed a new hot water heater for my house: the environmentally-correct tankless heater was three times as expensive as the conventional type. Without some kind of subsidy or rebate, there was no way I could afford to pay for the tankless one, so I went with the conventional, and less green, variety.

]]> By: Nancy Murphy http://www.marcgunther.com/2008/07/07/my-new-green-car/comment-page-1/#comment-59868 Nancy Murphy Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:39:15 +0000 http://www.marcgunther.com/?p=383#comment-59868 I can completely understand your car buying dilemna. I bought a Subaru Forester two years ago -- after owning a Ford Tempo for 13 years and a VW Beetle for almost 7 years. I too drive low mileage in a year, hate big cars (I can't maneuver them!) and wanted something just big enough to fit my bike in with the seats down. I considered a Honda CRV, but the model that year was too big for me -- they've since made them smaller. Every car salesman I met with tried to sell me something bigger -- highlighting all the benefits of a big car while clearly NOT listening to why I wanted something small. Finally, on my way out the door of one Honda place, the salesman mentioned the Fit. I hadn't heard of it and they didn't have any on the lot. in fact, it was so popular that the only way you could see one in person was to order one! None of the dealers had any available for test drives. Since I didn't want to buy untested, I ended up with the Subaru and love it. I also had been interested in a hybrid, but my fiance the tax lawyer told me it would take too long to recoup the investment -- especially with as little as I drive. And this was BEFORE the VA tax credit expired. I'd say in the end it makes more sense to drive less using a conventional car then drive more and get the full benefits of a hybrid. Congrats on the Fit! Hope you enjoy it, but keep riding your bike too. I can completely understand your car buying dilemna. I bought a Subaru Forester two years ago — after owning a Ford Tempo for 13 years and a VW Beetle for almost 7 years. I too drive low mileage in a year, hate big cars (I can’t maneuver them!) and wanted something just big enough to fit my bike in with the seats down. I considered a Honda CRV, but the model that year was too big for me — they’ve since made them smaller. Every car salesman I met with tried to sell me something bigger — highlighting all the benefits of a big car while clearly NOT listening to why I wanted something small. Finally, on my way out the door of one Honda place, the salesman mentioned the Fit. I hadn’t heard of it and they didn’t have any on the lot. in fact, it was so popular that the only way you could see one in person was to order one! None of the dealers had any available for test drives. Since I didn’t want to buy untested, I ended up with the Subaru and love it. I also had been interested in a hybrid, but my fiance the tax lawyer told me it would take too long to recoup the investment — especially with as little as I drive. And this was BEFORE the VA tax credit expired. I’d say in the end it makes more sense to drive less using a conventional car then drive more and get the full benefits of a hybrid. Congrats on the Fit! Hope you enjoy it, but keep riding your bike too.

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